In this episode of the [i3] podcast, Conversations with Institutional Investors, we speak with Danny Latham, Partner and Head of Australia and New Zealand for Igneo Infrastructure Partners. We discuss the evolution of infrastructure assets, termed "Infrastructure 2.0," which includes renewable energy, digitalisation, and waste management. Danny highlights the shift from traditional infrastructure to more dynamic, B2B-focused assets, emphasising the importance of cash flow predictability and regulatory risks. He also touches on the role of gas as a transition fuel, the potential of hydrogen, and the integration of water management in infrastructure projects. Finally, Danny explains his investment strategy, which involves active management, matching up hard assets with good people, and leveraging mid-market opportunities for value creation. Follow the Investment Innovation Institute [i3] on Linkedin Subscribe to our Newsletter Explore our library of insights from leading institutional investors at [i3] Insights Overview of podcast with Danny Latham, Igneo Infrastructure Partners 02:00 The Four C’s of Lending: capacity, capital, collateral and character 04:00 Funding versus financing; there is plenty of capital in the world, but are people prepared to pay for services and products? 05:30 My first venture into infrastructure was actually a prison in rural Victoria 09:00 Changes in the infrastructure over the last 30 years 13:30 There used to be a perception that these assets looked after themselves 17:00 Infrastructure 1.0 versus 2.0 18:30 Theoretically, infrastructure 1.0 should be a little less risky, but you are trading demand risk for regulatory risk 24:00 Are people taking more risk because of the odd YFYS benchmark? Yes, we are seeing that 26:00 Atmos Renewables, a key example of how Igneo invests 27:00 We’ve moved away from large caps, because we see more opportunities, better bolt-ons and better bilateral deals in the mid-market space 30:00 Today, our focus is on taking ownership stakes of 50 - 100 per cent, so we are driving the bus 35:00 Large, hyperscale data centres today are probably more frothy than other parts of the market 36:30 Australia’s power consumption will double between now and 2050. Where is that power going to come from? The potential conflict between energy transition, decarbonisation, and the reliability and affordability to support growth is a huge thematic across the globe. 38:00 Natural gas does have a long term role as a transition fuel 41:30 In the UK, the last coal-fired power plant has been shut down. In fact, one of the last assets we’ve acquired in the UK was a waste-to-energy asset that is located on an old coal-fired power plant site. 44:00 In a waste-to-energy model, you get paid for your fuel. So it is quite a different model. 46:30 In Australia, we are actually not that good at recycling water. One of our businesses takes wastewater and uses that to water the McLaren Vale wine region. 50:00 Adjacency benefits: Amazon has just bought the plot of land next to our waste-to-energy plant in the UK 54:00 AI and infrastructure; is it all about data centres? Full Transcript of Episode 116 Wouter Klijn 00:00 Hello and welcome to the i3 podcast: ‘Conversations with Institutional Investors’. My name is Wouter Klijn, and I'm the Editorial Director for the investment Innovation Institute. For more information about our educational forums for institutional investors, please visit our website at www.i3-invest.com. That's the letter i and the number three at invest.com. There, you can also subscribe to our complimentary newsletter. I3 insights in which we discuss investment strategy and asset allocation questions with asset owners from around the world. Now, as you all know, we love our disclaimers in this industry, so here's ours. This recording is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute financial advice and is intended for institutional and wholesale investors only. Please enjoy the show This episode of The i3 podcast was sponsored by Igneo Infrastructure Partners. As such, the sponsor may make suggestions for topics, but final control over the podcast remains with the investment Innovation Institute. Welcome to Episode 116, of the [i3] Podcast, Conversations with Institutional investors. In this episode, I'm speaking with Danny Latham, who is a partner and head of Australia and New Zealand for Igneo Infrastructure Partners, a manager that's owned by First Sentier Group. Danny and I are discussing the new wave of infrastructure assets, also referred to as Infrastructure 2.0. What is this and how does it fit in with an existing portfolio of assets? Are they riskier than traditional core assets, and what's their return profile? We take a look at assets such as waste to energy in the UK, where Amazon has just bought a plot next to Igneo's plant, we will discuss gas as a longer term transition asset and the national security aspects of it. Finally, we talked about capturing and repurposing wastewater and of course, AI, please enjoy the show. Danny, welcome to the show. Danny Latham 02:26 Thank you very much. Wouter Klijn 02:27 So tell me a little bit about your background before we get into all the details of the deals and the pipes and everything. Why investing and why particular infrastructure? Danny Latham 02:37 Sure. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to be here. So in some respects, sort of my, my journey to infrastructure really started with, I guess my first exposure to the investment industry was more in mortgage securitization, okay, so back in the sort of the early 90s. So yeah, been around a little while, and so as part of that sort of evolution. So been involved in sort of a lot of the, I guess, a lot of the foundations around, sort of credit analysis and the like and, and I guess, sort of some of those learnings for being sort of good stead for, I guess, sort of the subsequent career in infrastructure. And I guess, sort of some of those principles around, if you like the four C’s of lending, Wouter Klijn The four C's? Danny Latham The four C's, yeah, so capacity, capital, collateral and character. Wouter Klijn Okay, so last one is a bit different than the first three? Danny Latham Absolutely. And I think this is sort of a, I think it's probably an hour, an area that's sort of less focused on. But when it comes to investment, investing, whether it be in the public markets or the private markets, a lot runs, we are still fundamentally a people business. And so as part of that people business, character becomes important, right? So who are you dealing with? Who are you backing? What are their values? What are their ideals, in terms of, sort of managing money as part of that fiduciary responsibility, in terms of whether it be in the infrastructure world, about or even in my previous life, in the mortgage securitization world, is, if you lend someone money, are they going to pay it back? Wouter Klijn 04:20 Yeah, yeah. It's kind of important. What about the other three C's? Danny Latham 04:29 Yeah. Well, I think that is actually a very direct correlation across to sort of investing in all its guises. So it's understanding where the cash flows are coming from the variability of those cash flows, the capacity of the business to to pay. And this is sort of, I touch on, sort of in other aspects, but it's also about this sort of financing versus funding sort of ability. So I think, as a general rule, there's plenty of money out there to. Finance things. But in a cost of living pressured world, are people prepared to pay for the for the services and the products, and whether it be infrastructure, whether it be anything, so that's sort of that, I think that that funding capacity is often sort of under, under appreciated and and so it doesn't matter what you put into a model you need to under underpin that was sort of saying, what is the partly comes back to the character, what is the ability and propensity of people to pay? Wouter Klijn 05:32 Yeah, yeah. So we'll go a bit deeper into the investment process later on as well. But do you still remember your first infrastructure deal? Danny Latham 05:42 I do actually, and and essentially. So if I sort of segue from my journey from sort of mortgage securitization, yeah, into infrastructure. Mortgage securitization was great, and was lending, it was getting people into houses and so forth. But fundamentally it was, it was sort of just financing, yeah, and so for me, I guess intuitively, it was about sort of what's what's more real, and infrastructure became something that is more real. And so I grew up on a farm. My dad was a builder, so a lot of my sort of upbringing was about real stuff. Yeah, yeah, tangible stuff. So that sort of segued into, sort of my, my jumping from sort of financing, which was a little bit less real, into something much more real and tangible. And my first opportunity, as I sort of looked at the as I jumped into that sort of infrastructure space, was actually a social infrastructure asset in in rural Victoria, basically the sale of a prison. So, so a very atypical journey into, sort of jumping into that sort of infrastructure space. But then sort of that was sort of a more of a lending type deal, the real big sort of infrastructure. First asset was the Melbourne City Link deal, where it was, it sort of quite interesting this sort of, we were the, we were the underbidder to what became Transurban, yeah, sort of way back there in the in the 90s. So, so that was sort of the, if you like, that, sort of that start of definitely something real in the context of of a new build toll road, in a fundamental piece of infrastructure in Victoria. Yeah. Wouter Klijn 07:32 So how do you go from mortgages to a prison, which is a f
